Lifting The Veil

Dear Veil: You’re Destroying Birthy Land

May 19, 2013
1 Comment

Welcome to  “Dear Veil”! This is where we answer your letters.

“Cindy Jones” writes:

it sad what you are doing. honestly it is nutty sweetie. many of them won’t admit it because of pride but you are hurting them and u don’t have proof. u don’t even know what some of them are going through right now. you are the most destructive person in all of birthy land right now

Hi, Candace Rice.

First, none of us are your “sweeties”.

Second, hurting people is not our aim. If they are too proud to admit it, that problem is their own. They could try leveling with us. If they don’t want to, it’s understandable- they have hurt so, so many people themselves being part of these troll groups that letting their guard down might not be well received. That’s because there is a level of shame here. Should you be ashamed of being outed for being part of internet cliques that torment people? Probably.

Proof. See screen caps.

I am truly sorry that anyone is going through anything right now. I hope that as you all struggle with your personal pains you stop and think for a moment how any time you dealt harshly with other women online (tampering with their personal lives, or mocking them nonstop, etc.), maybe they were put through a lot of hardship too. I’m sure there is a lot of unnecessary pain that you will never know about, either from denial or from ignorance. If you want it to end, all you have to do is turn over a new leaf and disassociate with all the creeps who go around bashing people for their births.

The most destructive in all of birthy land, you say. If Birthy Land were a kingdom, it would already be wrecked by chaos and war and corruption. We’re messengers in that land telling the people the news. This is only destructive to you if it ruins your game. If you were standing in the light and doing right, you wouldn’t have anything to complain about here.

If you keep playing the victims without acknowledging how much your plotting and scheming over the years have deeply impacted birth communities online- real women and babies- you haven’t earned sympathy for being publicly outed over it. Everything is not all about you. Think of the pain you’ve caused others and not just yourself. Show some remorse.

sara savel is smart like a whip but she would have never shared skeptical mothers information publicly. never.

No, she just spent time researching every available detail about her personal and family life that she could, for no purpose at all, only to lock it away in a vault and keep it a secret forever.

and alexis is a educated lady, she doesnt troll or set outs to hurt others.

Which is why she’s a member of troll groups which keep tabs on groups that live their lives differently. For no purpose, really. Certainly not to jab at or interfere with.

your main beef seems to be with bambi. why not talk right to her?

We’ve tried. She was closed off. She is welcome to talk to us, though. We are very big on trying to talk to people before talking about them or judging them. We wish your group behaved the same.

what has heidi really ever done to you? bwf? liz? many many of these peoples what have they done to u or even anyone?

We have numerous screen caps and posts explaining all of this. If you choose not to look, address, or read, that is your own willful ignorance and denial.

or if she [The Skeptical Mother] would have said somewhere public that she had not a thing to do with your LTV blog [she would not have been targeted].

I’m sorry, I don’t think she or we realized we had to follow instructions of people harassing us. I believe it was Sara Savel who suggested she should publicly denounce us if she wanted to be left alone. [Remember, Sara is the same one who reportedly used her genealogical research skills to find everything she could on The Skeptical Mother’s personal life, including addresses and family trees.] I guess her word and our word weren’t good enough when we privately and publicly (respectively) clarified. You demanded public defamation by her. When you didn’t get what you were after, you tried to inflict harm. Sounds similar to terrorism, blackmail, extortion. Similar.

all this eye for eye is wrong. when it end?

Since when is justice “eye for eye”? We’re just telling the truth about what is happening to us. If you had stuck to birth issues and only trying to make mothers and babies safe, there would be no problem. When you use that to troll after people, then we’ve got big problems. “It end” when everyone stops being abusive. You’ve been abusive to innocent people who did not know you and you expect no consequences. This is foolish. You’ve expressed yourselves when you’ve gone after others (“free speech”, “the internet is public”), and we have the right to express our feelings in return.

But as Sara Rose says, it’s not about “feeweeings”. She said she is not going to coddle anyone, and while we have a little more compassion than that, it’s not our job to coddle internet bullies who are sad for being told on.


Then, Sanctimommy declares that it’s an all-out war. “They declared war on us,” they proclaim. Who is they? Anyone they think is sanctimonious. Who is sanctimonious? Anyone with a strong parenting opinion that they don’t like.  “Fight back” and “laugh at them“, they instruct. Only problem is, a lot of these are just innocent women in internet mommy groups who do things differently than the trolls. It wasn’t the sister-in-law who made you feel inadequate for bottle feeding, or the former friend who talked crap about your cesarean section. You are laughing at people who have nothing to do with your “feeweeings” of inadequacy.
sanctI do agree with the last two sentences. For the most part every woman is making the best choices she can for her family and no one needs anyone’s approval (especially not from trolls). Lashing out at strangers is not the answer. You’re not even getting back at the right people. You’re just hating people based on prejudice, which is why we say the trolls take part in hate groups.

Ironically, troll Isabelle puts the concerns of “Cindy”, Sanctimommy, and any other griping trolls into perspective.

waahSomeone must have been mean to her, too, since she joins pages like Banned by the Feminist Breeder.

So, back to “Cindy”, you were saying, about Birthy Land?

Florence Brun Tirakayos: The Trolls’ Achilles Heel

May 18, 2013
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There is a running joke that every troll alias is Florence Brun Tirakayos. The reason for this is she has the following noticeable traits (which coincidentally plenty of aliases share):

Quirky speech (French is her first language), concern trolling, moral reprimanding, odd grammar and use of capitals/punctuation/spacing. Hold any lengthy conversation or (un)civil debate with Florence and you will also see that she has the tendency to play mind games with her participants. She typically starts off “normal” at first, and then resorts to whatever tactic she thinks will elicit a response. She is capable of jumping all over the place with tone and seems to do so gleefully (as anyone would expect from a true internet troll who toys with people).

Since those descriptions and troll aliases often coincide, and because there is at least an ounce of truth to every joke, could this make Florence a good candidate for the troll of Candace Rice? In the previous post we named Bambi Chapman as the most likely culprit, with Liz Paparella and Heidi Faith also candidates. But check out this post Flo made on Fed Up [was referenced in the previous post].

This is very “Candace”. Very telling who “liked” Florence’s blind vengeance too. Melissa reveals that she doesn’t troll with this name, so it doesn’t matter to her.

Still, even with these traits in common, it seemed more likely that Candace was Bambi. Yet, Flo also was willing to punish anyone involved in making our Master Troll List. The one thing you can count on with Florence is inconsistency of her behavior and a hate for certain types of birth. This is part of why it is so easy to assume she’s behind certain schemes. So many conflicting messages, so hard to know what to trust when the motive and clues point to a few different people.

You can see more examples of Florence’s behavior below.  Despite her obvious flaws, she’s in similar company.

We just watched other alias “Jennifer Ralph” (search our site for more on her) gush over The Skeptical Mother’s appearance, which is something Heidi has done before and is very in her character to continue. Since Heidi has a history of trolling on Fed Up (search Kallie Bloom), this falls right in line with that.

“Jennifer Ralph” did provide the opportunity for Florence and Aleah to come in and strut with feathers fanned to show that Sammy wasn’t worth much next to them. Even if Jennifer Ralph is Heidi, what she started still served Florence. It would be easy to guess that it was Flo who sockpuppeted to fluff her own ego.

About the other commentors

It was very noticeable how Aleah trumpets about accomplishments and brains. Our guess is that she feels she has these in abundance and that people she dislikes do not. She mentions how you can “buy good looks, honey”. Well, it’s funny you should mention that…  (Search for Aleah; sexism)

Anj’s weird comment, about not having met Sammy… yet? This was during a time they were all trying to scare and intimidate her. They didn’t have a coffee date scheduled or anything. It only comes off as threatening.

Due to the conversation above, we’ve added Vanity, Envy, and Pride to our Categories list. Trolls will pick anyone apart and obsess over superficial things, and somehow it always comes back to their own insecurities and shortcomings. Trolls hurt people because they have something to prove, and that something is that they are better than somebody.

Back to Florence:

At this point we fully suspected Florence to be behind the Veil counter activities, and that Candace and Cindy were her aliases.

[UPDATE– an anonymous source told us that Cindy DiFrancisco was more likely behind the harassing.]

Florence talks. A lot. That gives us plenty of opportunity to recognize her unique voice much clearer, and her personality shows through more with every word. Then, there’s this.
This picture was removed from Lifting the Veil’s FB page. It was done so successfully because the person making the complaint was the owner of the comment. Nevermind that the owner was on a public forum using people’s full names to harass and intimidate! Our version was at least the censored version to protect the victims of bullying. Still, since we know the complaint came from Florence and since the only trolls bothering us lately have been Candace, Cindy, and the anti-LTV blogs/page, it seemed the one common denominator in all this (Florence).

What you need to know about Flo
Florence is a weak spot for the trolls. She doesn’t let things go where they would. She has too many numerous personas and even the other trolls aren’t sure when they can trust her or not. When her sockpuppet aliases get insulted, she feels personally insulted too. She craves belonging. She feels left out of a lot of the Raptor games and jokes. She looks up to several of them, namely Aleah, immediately copying things they say such as nicknames for enemies (ex: Sammoo and Lizzie, for TSM and ISOTPB).

Florence’s whole motto would be: Notice me. Everything she does within and for her groups is for recognition or to be noticed. Think of her as like the nagging little sister who constantly talks or tugs on your clothes to get attention. If she doesn’t get the desired result, she might dress up as somebody else as a disguise and start blowing things up in the backyard. She is constantly running her mouth and not able to keep things secretive (even if they would benefit her group). In some ways her behavior is unpredictable, unreliable. She is a liability for them.

If you see a troll being sloppy or out of control and they are attempting to be anonymous, consider that it might be Florence.

About Candace: She (“Candace”, “Cindy”) also shares info with us such as how Aleah and Sara Rose are really hurting by our project and are only pretending to not care, and that Sara Savel is the one to blame for sleuthing TSM’s info and passing it around. She shared screenshots from private messages from the trolls showing how they were scared of our project. She pointed us to new names we were not aware of and allowed us to connect aliases we previously thought were separate people.  “Candace” has actually been a pretty helpful informant.


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    The opinions expressed here through observation and experience are protected by free speech.