Lifting The Veil

TWWS Join Your Due Date Clubs, Share Your Info

June 19, 2013
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Becky James shares the following story with us.

I have a name to add to the list for a troll(from TWWS) that has been detrimental to a few people, including me

This is who started online bullying me on TWWS in late march and in the past has picked at peoples’ lives who have UC’d and who are mentally ill or who have gotten treatment, but she refuses to accept that they have.

Jacquelyn Buesch, jbk21(MDC), tofuscramble(TWWS), HopMama (TWWS)

In late March, I thought I was pregnant(it turned out I was, but had a false negative). I was an avid user of MDC and had no issue sharing my life with them, just as they did with me. We had become tight knit and seemed secure…. So I thought. It turns out, there were people going behind my back, mainly Jacquelyn, and going to TWWS to report any mishap in my life. But the worst bit was when I thought I was pregnant and asked them on my birth board about cervical position and cervical mucous and whatnot. She IMMEDIATELY assumed I thought I was pregnant, just because I didn’t know EXACTLY what was going on with my body and went to TWWS, and they started tearing me to shred from that point. A 30-something page thread was written mostly about me and how “sad” my life is and that I’m delusional, etc. And how someone should “help me” since my life was such a mess. Urgh!

I discovered that their “writing voice” was EXACTLY the same. Then I called tofuscramble out on being jbk21 when I was on TWWS. She and an admin IMMEDIATELY jumped on me about “no other aliases and no real names”. So I know it’s her.

I used to be Facebook friends with her. Like a year ago

On our due date club board on, we all shared our facebook profiles and friended each other.

There were people in the [hate] thread that are in my area (which was shocking because im in a kind of small area) and said they knew where I live and my phone number and shared it with others. Very disturbing.

I didn’t confront her on her FB. She had me blocked at the time. She blocked me because she was talking about me and if I found out, she didn’t want the drama to be pulled into the more “real” part of her life.

Thanks to Becky for being brave enough to let us publish her story and use her name. If any of you have a story you need to share, anonymously or not, don’t hesitate to contact us. We are putting a stop to these bullies, with the truth.

Jacquelyn had no problem getting close to someone in order to affect their personal life and share all their info, but put all the breaks on her own profile as soon as she was found out. She didn’t want anyone interfering with her personal life the way she had Becky’s. She can be found here:

Please think twice before friending people you don’t know, especially from parenting forums and Due Date Clubs.


Online Bullying Club for Mothers: TWWS

June 17, 2013
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“We aren’t really trolls!”

Trolls With Wooden Spoons is a forum that is more or less a club for women to get together on the internet and bond over judging other women and mothers. It’s not just that, it’s so much more. It’s a place to plot and scheme. Small plots involve just deeply hurting feelings of people they’ve been quietly watching, or on nice days ripping their lives to shreds for entertainment without inviting them to witness it. Bigger plots involve stepping into the personal lives of their targets in various menacing ways.

Some people are only familiar with either this group, or the Dr. Amy trolls. Not everyone is familiar with both. The line blurs sometimes, however, and sometimes the same members are found in each. At the end of the day a troll is still a troll. Even if each group thinks they are special or different from the other, their behaviors and reputations are pretty much the same.

You’ve heard the common refrain– “disagreeing is not trolling!” Of course not, but that’s not why you’re trolls. From Fed Up with Natural Childbirth, the snark site Trolls With Wooden Spoons is brought up.

^ Also, Trolls are smart even though there are homebirthers there, and others (including Stacey Westover Martin) say that they are part of that forum, too.

It’s kind of interesting, since there have been problems between these groups of trolls before. (See: Trolls Collide). It even gets referenced over here, at Mama Tao (run by Dr. Amy trolls). It’s worth noting that chronologically, this image \/ actually takes place before the one just above.

Likewise, TWWS often complains that Dr. Amy and her trolls are far more cruel and closed-minded than they could ever be. Neither one seems to realize just how similar they are to the other. They are all in total denial of their level of malice.

The next couple of pics below show ongoing snark on one particular woman they found on a parenting forum. The woman has had an unassisted birth. They pool resources and try to sleuth how to interfere with her life, including future births.

How do people come to be trolls? Sometimes they start off as women who’ve been targeted and come to look up to the bullies. Here’s troll Zilch’s introduction.

Zilch (aka Charlotte Cohen) would go on to be a very involved troll, doing activities such as using Facebook to message the friends and relatives of people she was targeting, as a “warning” to them. Some people so admire abusers, they want to copy that “strength” and become abusive themselves. She won’t tell you who she was when she was being mocked, but she assures she can troll with the best of them.

“I don’t appreciate being called a troll!” we often hear. Tell us one more time, please, how you are not trolls.

Trolls of any kind really just crave a sense of belonging, and in their warped minds this is best done when getting together with others to tear other people down. Needing a group that feels supportive is something we all feel from time to time. If your group is dedicated to tormenting strangers and you call that fun, you’re a troll and a bully. You’re wrecking real lives. You don’t even really know the people you choose to harm. You earned your title. Your group isn’t actually helping you, it’s enabling your sick behavior. Get help.

Anj Fabian: Exception & Expectation

May 30, 2013
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Anj is a noticeable Dr. Amy troll, participating in all the usual haunts. Anj is found on Fed up, “Banned” pages, etc. She can be fairly mild compared to some, but is still active and bothersome. Here we’ll touch on which qualities she sometimes brings to the troll group(s).

This shot shows a conversation about Dr. Amy deleting people. She “almost never” does that! Anj makes note of why he was the exception.

Yes, Myrisa. It can be tiresome to have others with different agendas never let up. Anyway, the reason why this post was interesting was that whenever these individuals rag on birth groups and pages, the common accusation is how full of censorship it is (and also, how you will never see this on an Amy blog or page). Yeah, usually if you can’t adhere to basic etiquette, but who cares about that? Just keep checking off the scorecard at Banned From Birth Pages and you too can be a cool kid. Exceptional, exceptional. The double standards are mmm… exquisite.

Here she admits that there are other ways of knowing things, other than taking courses or getting degrees. This is regarding her own knowledge on a particular topic, and how she gained it.

The hell you say! Well, clearly Anj and her topic of interest are the exceptions. (Or is it, things which make her uncomfortable are?)  Most people within her group (perhaps even she herself) would normally consider statements like the above to be totally ludicrous. It’s good to see she has an open mind, when it comes to herself, though.

Here, Anj attempts to add a troll blog to our list. Way to throw your friend under the bus. With friends like these, who needs enemies?

Anj was not happy that Jeevan was the exception here.

Anj and “Yet

Anticipation! Suspense! Anj loves the word “yet”.

“No reviews yet.” Yeah, so if you want to trash the new edition of a classic, hated based on regurgitated ideology, hint hint– now’s your chance. Amazon reviews are the only things keeping mothers and babies safe on the internet anyhow.

“I haven’t met the woman. Yet.” Because no identity stalking intimidation on the internet is complete without implied threats. Keep them guessing. Is Anj around the corner? Maybe. Nice touch.

Anj, many may mistake you for a normal troll, but we say you are full of surprises. The biggest and best surprise of all would be if you would quit using your time for trolling with hate groups. Please?

More on Trolls With Wooden Spoons

May 30, 2013
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Who needs soap operas or reality TV? With the vastness of the internet, the world is your oyster.

That’s how Trolls With Wooden Spoons feel.

Their forum was created as a frustrated off-shoot from MDC ( Feeling overrun by the “woo” (natural parenting), they needed a place to bitch and moan. Being a mother can be so dull, after all. They needed a place where trolls could be trolls.

These women are very harsh on things they have a distaste for. It’s like a no holds barred competition of who can be the rudest, foulest, judgmental woman towards other women and mothers. Why women who hated “woo” were every interested in Mothering Magazine or in the first place is a point oft overlooked. Some say they were “steeped in the woo” and then “detoxed” with the help of TWWS. Others simply seem to like floating to any forum as long as it fills the hours in their days. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

Hey, as long as you have some place to log into on the internet where people can tell you what’s okay to think, right?

The following pictures show examples of just some of the snark coming from TWWS. Most of the snark had been and still is based off of users of the MDC forum. They had a huge thread crash back in early 2011 which cost them some of their most disgusting behavior.  Therefore, some of their most offensive antics are missing.

(These ones start with concern for someone and devolve quickly into something a little disturbing.)

twws4(Next they discuss their favorite “trainwrecks” of the MDC forum, with much joy. The same user from the previous posts is also discussed among them.)

Yep, such a snoozefest you had to remember her and discuss her in your best-of. Pathetic.

Snark and frustration in and of themselves are not crimes. Everyone has an opinion and having a place to express that with like-minded folks is understandable. What is most worrisome about TWWS are the following things.

  • People stay members of (a) forum(s) they despise merely to try to cause disruption in sub-forums, find entertainment “material” (other people’s lives) to bring back to their lair, or find things to be pissed about.
  • People inform others about when they are being discussed. They are then directly or indirectly invited to TWWS. Sometimes this is done under the guise of compassion, and with a link provided. It would be mean enough if they kept their negative thoughts only to themselves in their forum (you have to be a member and log in to read), but to then purposely try to hurt others or engage them in being shredded by a large group of mean-spirited trolls is totally different.
  • Obsession and amusement. They would sometimes have 50 page threads all dedicated to how much they hated one particular user. Their comments would be full of speculation, lies, gossip, and some of the nastiest things human beings could ever say about other human beings (especially those they’d never met). They often “break out popcorn” to enjoy disputes or entertaining lives at the expense of their victims. They will follow a person’s every move just to report back, and will try to locate them in other internet places in order to track the “adventures”. They will go on to remember this individual for years after they started in on them, having a whole timeline as one might recall a favorite television series. A lot of times their opinions and recollections are mish-mashed from several people they lump in together who must have seemed similar to them.
  • They do not extend the same courtesy to others that they would like for themselves. They don’t want people to be judgy towards them, yet they feel free to judge others. They want a forum where they can have a home to snark on natural parenting, call those forums oppressive in their attitudes and moderation, but they aren’t willing to let natural parenting folks have a safe place for forum– free of their judgments and mind games (which skillfully make it past moderation, plenty).
  • The worst: interference in personal lives. Examples? Women use internet forums looking for help with a situation. Maybe they are having money or relationship troubles. The trolls get close to them at whatever forum they find them. The women are obviously already desperate to even be posting on an internet forum asking for advice from strangers. The trolls send private messages offering to help somehow (“I’ll get you a bus ticket to come stay near me for a while, and get away from that abusive deadbeat. There’s a job waiting for you here.“, etc.). As soon as the victim gives up ANY identifying info (address, full name, kids names, significant other and friends names, personal facebook address, etc.), things take a dark turn. Women get CPS at their door. Sometimes children are removed from them, even if temporarily. Women spend the night in jail from trumped up “concerns”. Others have their small businesses tampered with. Some have had to close due to trolls successfully scaring off all their customers and ruining their reputation. Phony bad reviews are left for people. The list goes on.

The harassment goes well beyond a single forum and begins to follow the victim, whether just on the internet or in real life.

The trolls will have many aliases, sometimes even within the same forum, just to play these games. These come in handy when pretending to be different people or in case of being banned from a forum (which is almost inevitable).

You may say that people with common sense who are careful can never be truly hurt by the trolls. It is fair to say that common sense goes a long way in protection. However, if they take a personal interest in you, they sometimes go to great lengths to keep affecting your life in whatever way they can manage. Despising people also comes quite easily to them. You’re a game and they’re bored. They’re also great “concern trolls”, acting like they care about your issues, your life, your children, and this justifying their interference. When they can be heartlessly cruel in one moment and switch it to pretending to want to help in the next, and when their whole forum was based off of and continues to specialize in hate, the act falls flat.

Some members of TWWS will tell you how great they are. They have helped each other through tragedy. They have helped each other have nice holidays. They have met up in person. They have sent presents. They have braided each other’s hair. Whatever. Everyone has good in them somewhere, and if you’re fortunate enough to see their good side, great for you. Someone else out there was less lucky. Their good does not at all dismiss the very painful negative impact they are having on the world (especially when the good is so selective, and their hate so easy and merciless). You could be the pregnant mom crying at home at the shock of “meeting” them, or the businesswoman closing up shop for good, or the woman finding herself answering authorities while her children sit in a holding room. It’s all wrong and decent people don’t do that to each other. End of story.

They like to say that they aren’t really trolls. The name references something else, and they’re just an innocent forum of smart, sassy women. Right. Maybe there are better ways to feel more happy about your own unsatisfying lives than attacking other women you encounter on the internet. HTH.

Sara Savel: Troll Genealogist and Super Sleuth

May 29, 2013
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According to the anonymous trolls like Candace Rice who’ve been hounding us left and right, Sara Savel is responsible for finding out as much about The Skeptical Mother as possible. Once they had her name from another source (thought to be January Harshe, aka Birth Without Fear), Sara was able to use that info to find out even more, including legal matters, details on her husband, address information, and even the woman’s family tree.

But why would someone want or need that info? For what purposes would this be used?

We already know that Candace is correct about Sara being smart and being a bit of a genealogist. We’ve seen her discuss this before. All the pieces began to fit. It just made sense. It turned out that Candace was an actually credible witness when it came to the trolls and their roles.

The chronology of how this came to pass goes something like this. Birth Without Fear grows increasingly threatened over The Skeptical Mother’s success as a Facebook birth page. As she is about to surpass BWF’s numbers, BWF followers go to TSM’s page to pick fights. In one fight, Ruthie Davis came to claim that TSM was copying January by celebrating gay parents and essentially made it clear that this was January’s turf. She also started publicly sharing TSM’s full, private name right then and there as an act of intimidation.

Once the name was *officially* out (as in, not being exchanged between a few trolls in private messages or groups), people were more open about sleuthing. Bambi Chapman claims she then found TSM on ISOTPB’s (Elizabeth’s) Pinterest. Of course she wouldn’t know who Sammy (TSM) was from just a friends list, so she came to Pinterest already knowing the name (from January) and looking for confirmation.

Next Sara was their girl, and Candace credits her for being the smart one in the Raptors. Sara took it upon herself to locate everything she could on Sammy, and then had private message conversations in which she suggested that Sammy should, if she wanted to be left alone, publicly denounce this project. Sara implied that her word alone would not sway all the people with sharing the info (some of which she herself had helped gather). That’s right… Sara, a respected Raptor, longtime Dr. Amy fan, member of Fed up and admin at Banned From Birth Pages’ word would not be enough to influence her friends and groupmates not to share personal info of an innocent person. Think about that for a moment.

Sammy refused to denounce the project but tried to speak words of peace to Sara. Then, trolls on Fed up with natural childbirth began publicly stating TSM’s full name and location repeatedly as they bashed her. This was all in retaliation for supposedly being involved in this project, which she was not.

What Came Next?
Sara then contacted us threatening legal action if we did not fix these already innocuous sentences (from You’re Destroying Birthy Land) : “I believe it was Sara Savel who told her she should publicly denounce us if she wanted to be left alone. I guess her word and our word weren’t good enough when we privately and publicly (respectively) clarified. You [Candace; the group] demanded public defamation by her [Sammy, TSM]. When you didn’t get what you were after, you tried to inflict harm. Sounds a little like terrorism, blackmail, extortion.”

In an effort to be accommodating, we then changed it to read: I believe it was Sara Savel who suggested she should publicly denounce us if she wanted to be left alone. [Remember, Sara is the same one who reportedly used her genealogical research skills to find everything she could on The Skeptical Mother’s personal life, including addresses and family trees.] I guess her word and our word weren’t good enough when we privately and publicly (respectively) clarified. You demanded public defamation by her. When you didn’t get what you were after, you tried to inflict harm. Sounds similar to terrorism, blackmail, extortion. Similar.

You want to take it to the law, Sara, spending your money and/or time over this paragraph? Here are the facts.

1. You enjoy genealogy.
2. You used skills you acquired in genealogy to gather information on an enemy– a woman your group had been bashing and hounding for years now.
3. Yourself and a group of women on the internet who take part in various bash sites were now all privy to the woman’s name and personal details.
4. You, by your own admission, stated that you asked TSM to denounce this project.
5. You then suggested to her that your belief in her innocence was insufficient to convince the group of women you associate with not to use the gathered info to retaliate against her.
6. Said group did publicly and privately use this info to retaliate against her, when she failed to comply with your suggestion.
7. You deemed this a “moral failure” on her part, showing that you had placed a judgment on her choice– the implication being the results are hers, and just.
8. You continue to associate with said group and said activities.
9. We have screenshots proving all these activities and continue to gather more.

Sara, I would ask this of you and all of your associates in the various birth-hate groups you participate in over the internet:  are you prepared to commit perjury in a court of law?

Or, you could just let us continue to tell our sides of the story. It’s up to you.

Despite the obvious issues here with corruption and deceit, we don’t hate Sara. We hate what Sara does. Any other day and topic, maybe she would be a reasonable human being and a good friend. It’s getting swept up in internet birth wars and attempting to control environments and people that totally warps a person into something they’re not. Factor into that a history containing birth trauma, child loss, and forms of depression, and sometimes people get a little off balance. We have no doubt like many have suggested that Sara is smart. Maybe even the smartest Raptor. It doesn’t change what is right and what is wrong.

Sara, the time to stop pushing people you didn’t even have to know… is now.

Just let people be and leave us alone. Do us all a favor and unknow us. Stay off natural parenting and birth forums if it’s so upsetting to you and inspires so much hate in you. Focus on the things which matter most, such as love, and your family. If you want to pursue certain forms of legislation or better health care for women, let that path guide you instead.  We wish you peace.

For a little more on Sara’s background and what brings her to the Birth Troll groups online, this may explain it.

Anonymous Source Names Cindy DiFrancisco As Harasser

May 24, 2013

An excerpt from a message from Anonymous:

I’m fairly certain that the Candace Rice & Cindy Jones person mentioned on TVL is Cindy DiFrancisco, *especially* if her IP showed Ohio. The writing style (“u” “babe” “cray cray”), the way she references Lindsay, Aleah, etc as being “the best raptors”, and her willingness to engage in conversation fairly civilly all point to Cindy.

Ok. That makes sense. Thank you.

A note from Elizabeth to Anonymous:  Thanks for taking time to reach out and provide this info. This seems possible, and your perspective is valuable to us. I appreciate your help. I didn’t respond directly to your message for certain reasons, but feel free to e-mail me anytime at and I will be likely to write back. 🙂 I hope you’re well too and enjoy the weekend.


Now back to the subject. Here are some things which could support that idea.

Remember how in our Master Troll List we mention that Cindy DiFrancisco was once thought to be a Heidi alias? It was even referenced that Cindy “used to be up Heidi’s ass” but is now up the asses of the main Raptors. This supports the odd use of “birthshit” everywhere as an insult (which copies Heidi).

We previously suspected Bambi.

Then there is how Candace Rice and her mock page are always defending Stillbirthday and Birth Without Fear. (In this shot, she also accuses ISOTPB of imagined meanness to The Skeptical Mother, which is untrue.)

If you didn’t know, Cindy DiFrancisco (among many other trolls on our list) is on the Prayer Team for Stillbirthday.

Sara R., possibly Sara Rose White.


Here she is trying to keep all the trolls interested in this project.

Efforts against us maintain that we are talking about women who’ve “done nothing wrong”. Dr. Amy trolls are fairly notorious for being malicious all over the internet, however. That’s a strong case of denial! Here “Candace” offers her support to “nice lady” January BWF.

Now it gets weird. Could Cindy DiFrancisco also be “Jennifer Ralph”? We thought this was Heidi. If not, just how far “up Heidi’s ass” is Cindy really?

Fed Uppers think “Jennifer Ralph” has serious psychiatric issues. (We agree!)
psychiatricIt’s funny you should mention that.



Florence Brun Tirakayos: The Trolls’ Achilles Heel

May 18, 2013
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There is a running joke that every troll alias is Florence Brun Tirakayos. The reason for this is she has the following noticeable traits (which coincidentally plenty of aliases share):

Quirky speech (French is her first language), concern trolling, moral reprimanding, odd grammar and use of capitals/punctuation/spacing. Hold any lengthy conversation or (un)civil debate with Florence and you will also see that she has the tendency to play mind games with her participants. She typically starts off “normal” at first, and then resorts to whatever tactic she thinks will elicit a response. She is capable of jumping all over the place with tone and seems to do so gleefully (as anyone would expect from a true internet troll who toys with people).

Since those descriptions and troll aliases often coincide, and because there is at least an ounce of truth to every joke, could this make Florence a good candidate for the troll of Candace Rice? In the previous post we named Bambi Chapman as the most likely culprit, with Liz Paparella and Heidi Faith also candidates. But check out this post Flo made on Fed Up [was referenced in the previous post].

This is very “Candace”. Very telling who “liked” Florence’s blind vengeance too. Melissa reveals that she doesn’t troll with this name, so it doesn’t matter to her.

Still, even with these traits in common, it seemed more likely that Candace was Bambi. Yet, Flo also was willing to punish anyone involved in making our Master Troll List. The one thing you can count on with Florence is inconsistency of her behavior and a hate for certain types of birth. This is part of why it is so easy to assume she’s behind certain schemes. So many conflicting messages, so hard to know what to trust when the motive and clues point to a few different people.

You can see more examples of Florence’s behavior below.  Despite her obvious flaws, she’s in similar company.

We just watched other alias “Jennifer Ralph” (search our site for more on her) gush over The Skeptical Mother’s appearance, which is something Heidi has done before and is very in her character to continue. Since Heidi has a history of trolling on Fed Up (search Kallie Bloom), this falls right in line with that.

“Jennifer Ralph” did provide the opportunity for Florence and Aleah to come in and strut with feathers fanned to show that Sammy wasn’t worth much next to them. Even if Jennifer Ralph is Heidi, what she started still served Florence. It would be easy to guess that it was Flo who sockpuppeted to fluff her own ego.

About the other commentors

It was very noticeable how Aleah trumpets about accomplishments and brains. Our guess is that she feels she has these in abundance and that people she dislikes do not. She mentions how you can “buy good looks, honey”. Well, it’s funny you should mention that…  (Search for Aleah; sexism)

Anj’s weird comment, about not having met Sammy… yet? This was during a time they were all trying to scare and intimidate her. They didn’t have a coffee date scheduled or anything. It only comes off as threatening.

Due to the conversation above, we’ve added Vanity, Envy, and Pride to our Categories list. Trolls will pick anyone apart and obsess over superficial things, and somehow it always comes back to their own insecurities and shortcomings. Trolls hurt people because they have something to prove, and that something is that they are better than somebody.

Back to Florence:

At this point we fully suspected Florence to be behind the Veil counter activities, and that Candace and Cindy were her aliases.

[UPDATE– an anonymous source told us that Cindy DiFrancisco was more likely behind the harassing.]

Florence talks. A lot. That gives us plenty of opportunity to recognize her unique voice much clearer, and her personality shows through more with every word. Then, there’s this.
This picture was removed from Lifting the Veil’s FB page. It was done so successfully because the person making the complaint was the owner of the comment. Nevermind that the owner was on a public forum using people’s full names to harass and intimidate! Our version was at least the censored version to protect the victims of bullying. Still, since we know the complaint came from Florence and since the only trolls bothering us lately have been Candace, Cindy, and the anti-LTV blogs/page, it seemed the one common denominator in all this (Florence).

What you need to know about Flo
Florence is a weak spot for the trolls. She doesn’t let things go where they would. She has too many numerous personas and even the other trolls aren’t sure when they can trust her or not. When her sockpuppet aliases get insulted, she feels personally insulted too. She craves belonging. She feels left out of a lot of the Raptor games and jokes. She looks up to several of them, namely Aleah, immediately copying things they say such as nicknames for enemies (ex: Sammoo and Lizzie, for TSM and ISOTPB).

Florence’s whole motto would be: Notice me. Everything she does within and for her groups is for recognition or to be noticed. Think of her as like the nagging little sister who constantly talks or tugs on your clothes to get attention. If she doesn’t get the desired result, she might dress up as somebody else as a disguise and start blowing things up in the backyard. She is constantly running her mouth and not able to keep things secretive (even if they would benefit her group). In some ways her behavior is unpredictable, unreliable. She is a liability for them.

If you see a troll being sloppy or out of control and they are attempting to be anonymous, consider that it might be Florence.

About Candace: She (“Candace”, “Cindy”) also shares info with us such as how Aleah and Sara Rose are really hurting by our project and are only pretending to not care, and that Sara Savel is the one to blame for sleuthing TSM’s info and passing it around. She shared screenshots from private messages from the trolls showing how they were scared of our project. She pointed us to new names we were not aware of and allowed us to connect aliases we previously thought were separate people.  “Candace” has actually been a pretty helpful informant.


    Content not accompanied/supported by evidence is anecdotal and provided by participants and donor submission. Everything herein is factual to the best of our knowledge; however, individual discretion is urged and advised.

    The opinions expressed here through observation and experience are protected by free speech.