Lifting The Veil

Dear Veil: You’re Destroying Birthy Land

May 19, 2013
1 Comment

Welcome to  “Dear Veil”! This is where we answer your letters.

“Cindy Jones” writes:

it sad what you are doing. honestly it is nutty sweetie. many of them won’t admit it because of pride but you are hurting them and u don’t have proof. u don’t even know what some of them are going through right now. you are the most destructive person in all of birthy land right now

Hi, Candace Rice.

First, none of us are your “sweeties”.

Second, hurting people is not our aim. If they are too proud to admit it, that problem is their own. They could try leveling with us. If they don’t want to, it’s understandable- they have hurt so, so many people themselves being part of these troll groups that letting their guard down might not be well received. That’s because there is a level of shame here. Should you be ashamed of being outed for being part of internet cliques that torment people? Probably.

Proof. See screen caps.

I am truly sorry that anyone is going through anything right now. I hope that as you all struggle with your personal pains you stop and think for a moment how any time you dealt harshly with other women online (tampering with their personal lives, or mocking them nonstop, etc.), maybe they were put through a lot of hardship too. I’m sure there is a lot of unnecessary pain that you will never know about, either from denial or from ignorance. If you want it to end, all you have to do is turn over a new leaf and disassociate with all the creeps who go around bashing people for their births.

The most destructive in all of birthy land, you say. If Birthy Land were a kingdom, it would already be wrecked by chaos and war and corruption. We’re messengers in that land telling the people the news. This is only destructive to you if it ruins your game. If you were standing in the light and doing right, you wouldn’t have anything to complain about here.

If you keep playing the victims without acknowledging how much your plotting and scheming over the years have deeply impacted birth communities online- real women and babies- you haven’t earned sympathy for being publicly outed over it. Everything is not all about you. Think of the pain you’ve caused others and not just yourself. Show some remorse.

sara savel is smart like a whip but she would have never shared skeptical mothers information publicly. never.

No, she just spent time researching every available detail about her personal and family life that she could, for no purpose at all, only to lock it away in a vault and keep it a secret forever.

and alexis is a educated lady, she doesnt troll or set outs to hurt others.

Which is why she’s a member of troll groups which keep tabs on groups that live their lives differently. For no purpose, really. Certainly not to jab at or interfere with.

your main beef seems to be with bambi. why not talk right to her?

We’ve tried. She was closed off. She is welcome to talk to us, though. We are very big on trying to talk to people before talking about them or judging them. We wish your group behaved the same.

what has heidi really ever done to you? bwf? liz? many many of these peoples what have they done to u or even anyone?

We have numerous screen caps and posts explaining all of this. If you choose not to look, address, or read, that is your own willful ignorance and denial.

or if she [The Skeptical Mother] would have said somewhere public that she had not a thing to do with your LTV blog [she would not have been targeted].

I’m sorry, I don’t think she or we realized we had to follow instructions of people harassing us. I believe it was Sara Savel who suggested she should publicly denounce us if she wanted to be left alone. [Remember, Sara is the same one who reportedly used her genealogical research skills to find everything she could on The Skeptical Mother’s personal life, including addresses and family trees.] I guess her word and our word weren’t good enough when we privately and publicly (respectively) clarified. You demanded public defamation by her. When you didn’t get what you were after, you tried to inflict harm. Sounds similar to terrorism, blackmail, extortion. Similar.

all this eye for eye is wrong. when it end?

Since when is justice “eye for eye”? We’re just telling the truth about what is happening to us. If you had stuck to birth issues and only trying to make mothers and babies safe, there would be no problem. When you use that to troll after people, then we’ve got big problems. “It end” when everyone stops being abusive. You’ve been abusive to innocent people who did not know you and you expect no consequences. This is foolish. You’ve expressed yourselves when you’ve gone after others (“free speech”, “the internet is public”), and we have the right to express our feelings in return.

But as Sara Rose says, it’s not about “feeweeings”. She said she is not going to coddle anyone, and while we have a little more compassion than that, it’s not our job to coddle internet bullies who are sad for being told on.


Then, Sanctimommy declares that it’s an all-out war. “They declared war on us,” they proclaim. Who is they? Anyone they think is sanctimonious. Who is sanctimonious? Anyone with a strong parenting opinion that they don’t like.  “Fight back” and “laugh at them“, they instruct. Only problem is, a lot of these are just innocent women in internet mommy groups who do things differently than the trolls. It wasn’t the sister-in-law who made you feel inadequate for bottle feeding, or the former friend who talked crap about your cesarean section. You are laughing at people who have nothing to do with your “feeweeings” of inadequacy.
sanctI do agree with the last two sentences. For the most part every woman is making the best choices she can for her family and no one needs anyone’s approval (especially not from trolls). Lashing out at strangers is not the answer. You’re not even getting back at the right people. You’re just hating people based on prejudice, which is why we say the trolls take part in hate groups.

Ironically, troll Isabelle puts the concerns of “Cindy”, Sanctimommy, and any other griping trolls into perspective.

waahSomeone must have been mean to her, too, since she joins pages like Banned by the Feminist Breeder.

So, back to “Cindy”, you were saying, about Birthy Land?

Dear Veil: The First

March 7, 2013
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Welcome to our First Edition of “Dear Veil”! This is where we answer your letters.

Ilise writes:

I did apologize to Michelle, ISOPB, and wrote about it and I feel bad that I, selfishly, took her loss and thoughts on VBAC personally.

What we were saying, Ilise, is that even though your initial offense had been insulting Michelle, what got you back in with BWF was apologizing TO BWF… for what, sullying her page? And anyway, it took a lot of nerve to add “Banned From BWF” at the end of your “Balanced Birth” page title when you knew WHY you were banned. Didn’t you deserve it? We know you were angry, but surely you understood why banning was warranted. This is just like all the people proud of frequenting “Banned From Birth Pages”. You do shitty things and then gloat about the fact that you are banned.

By the way, “Balanced Birth” is a curious title for someone who feels and reacts the way you do. You are only human and it’s understandable to take offense to people’s stories (I think?), but you don’t always have to act on that.

Are you saying you apologized to ISOPB, or are you trying to speak to her right now? Thank you for apologizing to Michelle and acknowledging the truth of your feelings. Please notice that Michelle is not the only one you and your people have affected in a truly negative way. Continue to do your part and disperse the mob. We’ll keep doing our part here by keeping women abreast of the way this whole operation works.

Florence writes:

Hi, Thanks for including me in your recap. Here are a few corrections for you!
“Florence Brun Tirakayos
Associated with Fed Up, Dr. Amy, and the Raptors. Florence’s first language is probably French (my first language IS French I also speak Spanish and FSL), and it shows in idiosyncrasies of her speech. Someone closely related to her experienced traumatic natural birth (My mom did not have a traumatic natural childbirth ,my mom lost her baby BECAUSE of Homebirth), which may fuel her hate for it( I do not hate NCB,I had one, I dislike the assumption that NCB is superior to other kind of births). She likes to play moral high-ground, often taking an I’m-disappointed-in-you stance to try to manipulate people emotionally. When that doesn’t work, she has no problem getting nastier herself . It’s all a game to her(it isn’t a game to me,I believe that women should make educated choices and not bully into thinking one way is better than the other), which is why she is suspected of fronting several personas/aliases.”
Cudoes to you for doing all of that work, it must have taken you forever!

Those are hardly corrections, Florence. Sounds like we had you pegged.

I’m very sorry about your sibling and your mother. So, the baby died because of homebirth, but you don’t have anything against homebirth, right? That’s why you joined Fed Up with Natural Childbirth and get downright nasty with women you don’t know? Makes sense.

So you dislike assumptions… a lot of assumptions are made daily by you and your group-mates about women and their births, and what kind of horrible people they are. Recognize that. And you don’t think people should bully people into thinking one way is better. Kind of like how you all go to pages you disagree with to bitch and moan, and then whine about how your harassment got you banned? How you stalk birthy people and try to interfere with their lives?

This was not as time consuming as you would think, though. It was certainly not as time consuming as crafting various personas to troll on pregnant women. Anytime something of interest hit our screens, we capped them. One person does most of the pic editing and then we post it to show the internet so they can know who to avoid. We do it because we hate bullies as much as you say you do.

Note to Readers:  You can do this, too! Have you seen a prime example of troll vindictiveness? Harassment? Cruelty?  Were you a victim of internet bullying by women who disagreed with your birth or parenting choice and relentlessly followed you around the internet? Take screen caps and send it our way. We want to hear your stories.


    Content not accompanied/supported by evidence is anecdotal and provided by participants and donor submission. Everything herein is factual to the best of our knowledge; however, individual discretion is urged and advised.

    The opinions expressed here through observation and experience are protected by free speech.